As a more bioavailable analog of Tyrosine, NALT is marketed as a nootropic. However the general consensus is that NALT causes the body to produce lots of dopamine, whereas Tyrosine produces both norepinephrine and dopamine. Some forums state that it produces considerable euphoria similar to opiates but without being sedating, but barely any stimulation. Some sources say it's addictive and has tolerance. Many sources agree that it's not really effective as a nootropic, but is a good antidepressant.
I decided to try it. My 150 gs just arrived in the mail today. A friend and I both took 600 mgs, just under the 700 mg mark where anxiety is reported to set in (I have since found that anxiety might not be inevitable at high doses; I would like to test this also). Within a few minutes we began to feel slight sensory changes. I'm not sure at what time it peaked, because I was honestly having a lot of fun listening to music (:D) but the experience couldn't have lasted more than 45 minutes (unless my sense of time was distorted, which is entirely possible because time flies when you're having fun). This means dopamine is being quickly broken down in the brain by MAO.
I felt euphoric, delighted, and I had a really good body high. My friend turned up some dubstep and my mind was instantly consumed in its awesomeness. Last night I had taken 2 grams of Magnesium Glycinate, so addiction wasn't something I was worried about. I don't feel any crash now, but I think NALT might cause tolerance to its effects unless used with magnesium. This is a very safe and effective method of getting a pure dopamine rush, no other effects, without worrying about addiction.
Note that NALT might cause tolerance even with magnesium, but not through dopamine receptor downregulation. It's possible that Tyrosine Hydroxylase, which converts tyrosine into L-DOPA, can be downregulated if NALT is used too much. I think any downregulation of that enzyme would be temporary, and not permanent.
I also had a rise in libido, which was unexpected, but it does make sense considering that dopamine agonists like apomorphine cause the same thing.
I had pain relief, euphoria, and enhanced creativity and music appreciation. I had enhanced communication and empathy abilities, as well as reduced fear. I don't remember if I had any visual distortions or lucid-dreaming-like visuals, but I will remember to check for that next time.
The funny thing about this is that it really functions as an anti-nootropic. I couldn't think as efficiently as I normally do, as far as information processing goes. However I had a greatly increased emotional intelligence. It felt like I was using my dopamine system instead of my acetylcholine system to function and communicate.
Despite NALT's poor job as a nootropic it could be a very effective antidepressant. It gave instant mood lift, and I don't feel like a crash happened at all. A crash might happen after prolonged or heavy use, but if normal doses are stuck to and used sparingly it would be good medicine with an afterglow that lasts a while.
I would like to run the following tests over the next few days:
- 800 mg NALT - to see if anxiety develops
- 100 mg NALT + 150 mg Hordenine + 100 mg Rutin - to see how much MAO-B inhibition will potentiate NALT
- 100 mg NALT + 200 mg Kudzu - to see how ALDH inhibition affects NALT (maybe add choline)
- 100 mg NALT + sufficient amount of EGCG from Green Tea Extract - to see if it can be made more powerful or better by only allowing it to break down in the brain
Hopefully NALT will prove to be a good admixture with phenethylamine, kratom, or kanna.
"Note that NALT might cause tolerance even with magnesium" Is magnesium supposed to help prevent tolerance to things? Can you explain to me a little more about that? I was more worried about it blocking certain receptors and blocking certain drugs like dissociatives.
Magnesium is an NMDA antagonist that we're naturally supposed to have in our bodies. It blocks the body's tendency to strengthen pathways in the brain, which means it prevents things like excitotoxicity from MSG, stress from overstimulation, tolerance due to changes in receptors, and addiction due to changes in receptors. Most of these things are done by proteins which are activated by calcium, and the NMDA receptor is the main way calcium enters the cell after a cell is used. So every time a cell is used, the NDMA receptor lets calcium in to change parts of the cell. So, if you block the NMDA receptor, you block these changes. Magnesium is like the insulation the body is supposed to have against hypersensitive connections forming all the time, but most people don't have enough magnesium.
But I don't think the protein that breaks down NALT is controlled by NMDA or calcium, so that may not help there.
found it at the local health food store. So many goodies...
ps. we should stock up on supplements while they are easy to get.. heard at the health food store that there was some law trying to make all supplements go through stricter FDA labelling and make lots of vitamins prescription only! Land of the Free!
We should draw up a charter for the Church of Oilahuasca to protect our plant using rights
I tried 100 mg NALT with 150 mg Hordenine, 100 mg Rutin, and 200 mg Kudzu. Euphoria was present for about 2 minutes before diminishing into slight anxiety. I wonder if I overshot it? That would mean an incredible increase in potency!
Then I tried 60 mg NALT with 150 mg Hordenine, 100 mg Rutin, and 200 mg Kudzu. However, I was sleep deprived at the time and I had some food in my stomach (but very little), and my dopamine system was not fully primed at the time so I'm not sure how accurate these results are. However, I did develop some euphoria that lasted longer than the first trial, but how much longer I'm not sure. And it wasn't as strong of a euphoria as I developed the first time I tried NALT.
I would like to try 75 mg NALT with 150 mg Hordenine, 100 mg Rutin, and 200 mg Kudzu, on a completely empty stomach, with good dopamine receptor activity, and with a good nights sleep behind me. My prediction is that it will be better euphoria than 60 mgs provided. Then I would like to try the same combination, but with 85 mgs NALT instead and compare the effects.
However, I'm not entirely sure that 100 mg NALT is too much. My previous tests were so vague they may have been flukes. I would like to try 150 mg NALT with the same combination of other ingredients. I would also like to try 600 mg NALT again on its own, and then 800 mg NALT to see what an actual overdose is supposed to feel like (mild anxiety, considerably less euphoria). That would help me better determine how NALT is affected by hordenine and the other inhibitors.
I wish I could get some cheap and pure L-DOPA. NALT works because it boosts the production of L-DOPA, but at some point it drops out and stops working and produces anxiety. L-DOPA shouldn't have this problem, and can be used with EGCG to maneuver it all into the brain. L-DOPA might cause nausea but that can be eliminated with Pinene.
Speaking of EGCG, I still want to try NALT with EGCG, but it's already so powerful with hordenine I'm not sure it's worth it. Plus it would eliminate the body high NALT provides, which feels AMAZING by the way.
It sucks that NALT might downregulate the enzyme that makes L-DOPA from tyrosine. The vitamins biopterin and pyridoxal-5-phosphate could provide more fuel for this enzyme. In fact, the depletion of this enzyme might be the actual cause of anxiety from NALT overdose (but I'm not sure about this, just a theory). If that is the case the addition of biopterin and P5P could activate more of the enzyme. This would allow higher doses of NALT to be used to produce euphoria. But this only works if the depletion of tyrosine hydroxylase is the reason NALT causes anxiety. (btw, biopterin is NOT biotin, it's something else)
Someone, find out how NALT overdoses cause anxiety and loss of euphoria. If it is by some other mechanism than tyrosine hydroxylase depletion we may still be able to reverse this effect.
Also, does anyone know where to purchase biopterin? I could only find one source of it, but it was in capsule form and, get this, had NALT mixed in with it! Maybe it really does affect the metabolism of NALT.
Check this out: http://www.life-enhancement.com/article_template.asp?id=841
Vitamins C and B9 increase levels of tetrahydrobiopterin (precursor for biopterin) in the body.
What is Rutin doing?Couldn't find much useful info on it.
Rutin inhibits MAO-B more powerfully than Hordenine, but rutin doesn't cross the blood-brain-barrier. Using rutin prevents hordenine from breaking down outside the brain, saving all the hordenine for the CNS and lowering the required dose of hordenine.
Toastus, have you noticed a big improvement in the effectiveness of hordenine when used with rutin?
Definitely. The 150 mg Hordenine + 100 mg Rutin combo feels like the time I tried 500 mg Hordenine.
That's about my response to the combination. I now always use rutin with hordenine. It stretches the hordenine out and saves me money. Rutin is a lot cheaper than hordenine.
Are you usually mixing everything all at once or are you predosing with the rutin?
I haven't tried predosing with it, I only use them simultaneously. I don't know how predosing would change the effects.
Also, I tried 75 mg NALT with 150 mg Hordenine, 100 mg Rutin, and 200 mg Kudzu, and it made me quite anxious. I think. It was more anxiety than I experienced with 100 mg NALT, so maybe some other factor besides NALT contributed to the anxiety. It may have been sleep deprivation (which has been my excuse for the past three weeks... pitiful).
I like L-phenylalanine a lot more than tyrosine. I think the "science" behind how these work is not at all complete. L-phenylalanine is supposed to turn into L-tyrosine and phenethylamine, but in reality it seems far more complex to me. I feel effects from L-phenylalanine that go beyond the effects of L-tyrosine and phenethylamine. So I know for a fact that the body does other things with it, based on how it feels in my body.
Why not try this with L-phenylalanine instead? Based on how my body is affected, I'm sure my body makes more dopamine from L-phenylalanine, and more norepinephrine from L-tyrosine. I have not tried N-acetyl-L-tryosine, so I can't comment on that, but L-phenylalanine is many times more pleasant and more potent than L-tryosine. (I'm not talking about the cheaper DL-phenylalanine, which I find unpleasant.)
I'd like to try phenylalanine with hordenine and rutin, and possibly kudzu. And then I would like to try phenylalanine with only EGCG to enhance brain levels, and then try phenylalanine with EGCG, hordenine, rutin, and kudzu. That might rival phenethylamine's level of effects in the brain. And phenylalanine is even more unassuming to the general public than phenethylamine, which might gain phenethylamine some widespread acceptance (wishful thinking, never going to happen) :D
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